Scaleo Overheating+slow - Your Q's answered - hopefully! :)

SCALEO E, SCALEO H, SCALEO X, SCALEO L, SCALEO P

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synkro
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 13:48

Scaleo Overheating+slow - Your Q's answered - hopefully! :)

Postby synkro » Thu Jun 29, 2006 16:54

:D
Hi there, I'm an engineer working for a big reseller of Fuji-Siemens PC's. Won't mention any names. But hopefully I can provide some help to all of you having heat-related problems with your PC, as I've dealt with many recently. Some of them have even been serviced by Fuji under 12 month warranty but they dont seem to have been sorted properley.

To begin, as most of you know, the Heatsink and fan combo fuji fitted as standard is very big and quiet. quite a nice bit of kit and great when it works... However it has one small but rather critical flaw. the collar/pipe containing the fan, which fits on top of the heatsink, is butted up to the heatsink. On every other heatsink/fan you look at you will see there is a few mm of airspace. This allows the dust which builds up to simply blow off to the side. Or the Heatsinks fins are further apart and the dust does not collect in the first place. This flaw means your heatsink is working like a bag on a vacuum cleaner and getting dirtier and dirtier. Eventually the fan does not fail, but simply enough air does not get through to cool the CPU sufficiently.

In a (not very) wise move by Fuji - the CPU overheating warnings that are availiable in the BIOS are turned off by default. This means that as the dust builds up your machine gets closer and closer to the edge of destruction. When a P4 processor turns itself off, things are already REALLY bad. P4 processors can keep going up to around 115 degrees centigrade! Above 80 they start to "throttle" themselves to keep the heat down but eventually the lack of cooling defeats even this. I recommend turning this feature on ASAP - Set it to 90. If it hits this mark and the warning kicks in. Turn it off. Now.

The obvious move is to clean the Heatsink and put it back together and keep an eye on it. Or just swap it as they only cost a fiver. Thing is by this time most people have already kept trying to use the machine and thereby damaging it a little more each time. Try this step - if your machine is back to normal - your lucky!...

SO - You've cleaned/changed the heatsink, why isnt it working all as it was? Well to put it simply the constant overheating has killed the motherboard. I have put a top-notch fan and heatsink on one of these machines and although the fan can keep the temps down the chip is being thrashed constantly. I think it may be the voltage controller but not 100% sure. Even a new CPU doesnt keep the temps down.

The good news - Your CPU is probably fine. Which is very good as 3.2/3.4 P4 CPU's are virtually impossible to get.

The bad news - Your Motherboard is knackered. They are availiable from servicesource at around £60 - Or get a generic for around £30-40 :(

Hope this helps and stops you from banging your head against the wall! - Any Q's feel free to ask!

PS - IF YOUR SCALEO IS NOT OVERHEATING STILL ENABLE THE OVER-TEMP WARNING IN THE BIOS, AS ITS COMMON SENSE! (take note fuji)[/b]

dclowes

Postby dclowes » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:15

interesting - but the whole design of the case is pretty crap with only one 40mm fan over the HDD sucking air in and only the pSU fan taking air out is IMHO way inadequate.

For those gamers who bought this rig - its an absolute must to improve the air flow. I did it with mine and mine idles at 32 degrees now (note - with a new cooler).

I think any cpu collects dust overtime, the bios sounds a must to check(but I cant recall seeeing the option to enable it - will look later) - but anyone with any sense should check their cpu every 6 months or so...

JohnFryett
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:00

Overheating

Postby JohnFryett » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:25

Thanks for this really useful post - I'd tried everything to solve the slow speed / unexpected shutdown problem without success. However, a thorough, albeit very careful, disassembly of the CPU heatsink/fan and vacuum clean has apparently done the trick.

Still can't work out how to enable the temperature warnings in the BIOS though - any hints?

athegn
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 0:01

Postby athegn » Fri Sep 29, 2006 17:59

Do you mean 90 centigrade or fahrenheit?

Is there any advantage in leaving the case cover off?

I have had shut downs this summer.

Scaleo P with Asus P5GDI-FM main board with Pent 4 3.2 1 gig RAm

Bios AMi v02.53

Bios > Power > Hardware Monitor

CPU Temp = around 62c/144f
MB Temp = around 42c/108f

CPU Target Temp = 60c
CPU Q-Fan Control = ENABLED

CPU fan Speed = around 1222RPM
MB fan = around 2393 RPM

Cannot find a setting to give CPU temp warning

The fins on the CPU are clear.

I ran "SpeedFan 4.28" under Win Xp and it gave me temps of 43c, 49c and 50c. The application warns that it can not easily tell which temp is which. I guess Temp1 (43C) is the mainboard. But which of the others is the CPU I can only guess. Temp2 (49c) seem to have the most movement and rises fastest when CPU usage goes up.

Any advice appreciated

onai97
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 20:12

consequences of overheating

Postby onai97 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:37

I encountered a problem of overheating on a Scaleo P, and things happened exactly as described in the first post of this thread: I cleaned up the dust accumulated between the fan and the heatsink, after what the computer seemed to operate normally, apart from the fact that the filesystems were totally corrupted, so that I had to reformat the hard drive and reinstall Windows XP and Linux.

Now to the point: during a few days, the computer worked correctly (and accumulated hundreds of MB of Windows updates) but after 4 or 5days, refused to boot. Booting from the recue CD, I found errors on the hard drive, which were unrecoverable. I reinstalled windows once more and run into the same problem.

I then moved to the Linux installation, which appeared to be more robust. Hoping that WIndows was responsible for the problem, I installed a lot of software on the Linux partition, and everything worked fine: the processor was able to compile big programs, the result was correctly stored on the disk, and correctly read and executed. And apparently, no overheating.

However, after that I could not reboot Linux as well. The kernel crashed in the middle of the boot sequence, apparently due to an error on the disk.

So, my question is: How to explain this ? Which component is responsible for this behaviour ? The hard drive controller on the mother board ?

bb193
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 15:49

Postby bb193 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 18:41

Interesting thread. I have a Scaleo P (15/12/2005) and checked this straight away. The setting is in PC health in the bios, and it was already set to 90C. Thanks for the tip, anyway!
Regards

Eric

bb193
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 15:49

Postby bb193 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 19:58

For anyone interested, I thrashed my Scaleo P by doing hours of NeroVision transcoding - CPU at 98-100% constantly. I was lucky enough to have a version of Everest Home Edition monitoring software to check the temperatures and fan speeds. This is what it told me:-

--------[ EVEREST Home Edition (c) 2003-2005 Lavalys, Inc.
Version EVEREST v2.20.405
Homepage http://www.lavalys.com/
Report Type Report Wizard
Computer HOST-COMPUTER (Host Computer - Media Center PC)
Generator Baines_Family
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 5.1.2600 (WinXP Retail)
Date 2007-01-05
Time 18:50

--------[ Sensor ]-------------------------------------------------------------

Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type ITE IT8712F (ISA 290h)

Temperatures:
CPU 51 °C (124 °F)
Seagate ST3200822AS 40 °C (104 °F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 3068 RPM
Chassis 2557 RPM

So I think that sets a benchmark for the a reasonable maximum CPU temperature and fan speed you should expect.
Regards



Eric

olshevch
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:02

Re:

Postby olshevch » Fri Jan 05, 2007 20:23

bb193 wrote: Sensor Type ITE IT8712F (ISA 290h)

Temperatures:
CPU 51 °C (124 °F)

The same sensor constantly returns 40°C for any CPU load, while fan speeds rise, on my Scaleo Pa.

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Nephitis
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Product(s): Scaleo X
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Postby Nephitis » Sun Jan 07, 2007 21:50

Does this only apply to the Intel Pentium processors, and the Scaleo P models? Do computers from Fujitsu Siemens have insufficient cooling in general?

olshevch
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:02

Postby olshevch » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:44

I have Scaleo Pa 1519. It's on ASUS M2R-FVM motherboard and AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ processor.
I ran much of different benchmarks on it, including graphic and cpu tests. Also I changed graphic card from GeForce 7300 GS to ASUS GeForce 7600 GT Silent. I guess, this made my computer more hot, because of passive video cooling, which radiator is just in the front of processor fan.
I have some problems with measuring accurate temperature by monitoring programs, but I can say that I did not have temperatures, higher than:
CPU - 53C
GPU - 64C
HDD - 36C

Normal use of the computer (internet browsing mostly) gives following values:
CPU - 34-37C
GPU - 51C
HDD - 34C

Of course, anything is overclocked.
Therefore, I don't have any problems with heat yet.

bb193
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 15:49

Postby bb193 » Fri May 11, 2007 12:07

Interestingly (to a sad person like me), I felt that the idle temperature on my Scaleo P seems to be higher than it was, along with the fan speed. The CPU seemed to be idling at about 40-41C (fan about 2,500 rpm). I've had it almost 18 months, and the comments here suggested to me that it might be worth a bit of a spring clean.

So I finally go round to taking the cover off and clearing out any dust with a can of air. It only took five minutes but quite a bit seemed to emerge from the processor heat sink. Bit scary, but pretty easy really.

It now seems to idle at about 30C, and I'm now thrashing it with Nero transcoding (100% cpu for about 40 minutes so far) and the CPU temperature is sitting at only 43C (fan speed 2,637). It might be my imagination but it all seems quite a bit quieter too.

Easy job, and I'd recommend it to others who have a Scaleo P
Regards



Eric

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bubblegum
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Product(s): Scaleo T: Esprimo D9510 (work):Scaleo P
Location: London

Postby bubblegum » Fri May 11, 2007 13:24

Hi, I first had this problem some time ago. I spoke to a man at FS even though it was under warranty, he said dust build up was not covered. He told me to clean out the heatsink fan myself. My pc had been shutting down.

I cleaned it out, & put the temp monitoring on in the bios. I also answered several questions on this forum & suggested doing this.

A couple of months later the motherboard packed up. Luckily the warranty covered this.

One point about generic motherboards, I think you would need to reactivate xp with microsoft.

A week or so ago, I enabled SMART in the bios. Now I hear the fan change speed as the temp changes.

My question, is it better to leave the fan on at a constant speed, or leave SMART enabled?


:roll:

bb193
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 15:49

Postby bb193 » Fri May 11, 2007 13:45

SMART has always been enabled on my Scaleo P, and I hear the fan speed change when I start asking more of the processor.

I leave it on as it does mean it is quieter when idling, or not doing much (eg recording a TV show). However, it mean it seems noiser when it is doing something, as you notice the noise change as the fan speeds up.
Regards



Eric

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bubblegum
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Product(s): Scaleo T: Esprimo D9510 (work):Scaleo P
Location: London

Postby bubblegum » Fri May 11, 2007 17:10

My fan is a bit noisy, so I'm thinking of getting a new cooler & fan.

http://www.rlsupplies.co.uk/products/pr ... ?id=220255

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tenchiten
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Product(s): Frankenputers
Location: Cheshire UK

Postby tenchiten » Fri May 11, 2007 21:44

Thank you synkro for this post, I am sure many users will benefit from this information.
Learning all the time.


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